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First Build: GTX 780, 4770k, 840 pro, Storm Stryker.
by Hakumisoso
Permalink:   (114 comments)
Description

Build update coming soon when I move into my new home this summer.

This is my first (unnamed) build. I am overall very happy with this computer. All my parts worked fine and i have minimal complaints.

COMPLAINTS I HAVE: -My corsair fan is super loud. Would recommend getting the quiet edition. -Do not get windows oem. wish i got the full version but couldn't find it anywhere. -It doesn't do my chores.

TO ANSWER ANY POSSIBLE QUESTIONS: -Why 16 gb of ram? --Well you see the cpu cooler i have completely blocks the ram slots so in order to add or replace ram i would have to take the cooler off which is a procedure i do not want to go through again. -Why such an overkill psu? -- Well you see i am always thinking about the future. I plan to get another gtx 780 and overclock them both. I also overclock my cpu. So the 1000w psu was the closest high quality psu i could get for a decent price. -Will you be overclocking with that beefy cooler? -- Of course! so far i have pushed my chip @ 4.5 ghz @ 1.29 core voltage. I am happy with the temps and voltages.

WHAT I PLAN TO DO LATER: - I want to add another gtx 780. -I want to get some case lights maybe. Feedback on that please. -Do an all out overclock on all my parts and see what benchmark scores i hit. (DONE) -Possibly get a sound card. -Maybe some noise dampening foam. My corsair fan is super loud.( DONE)

FEEDBACK? -What i hope to hear from you guys are any additional questions, any comments, concerns, any specific benchmarks you want me to run, an overclock you want me to try, more pics, etc. And of course if you like my build please leave an up vote! Thanks for checking out my build!

Details
Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Clock Rate4.5GHz
CPU Temperature While Idle30.0° C
CPU Temperature Under Load74.0° C
EVGA GeForce GTX 780 3GB Superclocked Video Card
GPU Core Clock Rate941MHz
GPU Effective Memory Clock Rate6.01Ghz
GPU Temperature While Idle32.0° C
GPU Temperature Under Load55.0° C
3DMark 11 Benchmark Results
Performance Preset ScoreP12401
Comments
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Sorted by:
 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 13 points 17 months ago

Man, pcpartpicker really butchers picture quality.

 
 
PirateCoffee 8 points 17 months ago

What FPS do you get in Minecraft? I'm being serious right now.

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 5 points 17 months ago

Depends on the settings, fully maxed out with no mods singleplayer i get 120+ while recording. on multiplayer the fps is ridiculously high like 700+. But i use vsync so the frames stay @ 144 fps most of the time.I am going to try shaders soon which is very gpu demmanding. If i go to a superflat world and fly up really high i get 2400 fps usually.

 
 
spyguy001 [1 Build] 5 points 17 months ago

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I really CANNOT wait till i have a rig like it in August.

 
 
ITneto 2 points 8 months ago

Did you try the shaders? how was it like?

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 3 points 8 months ago

I get 30 fps with the most intensive shaders. On regular ones I get ~50 ish. If you get the same card results may vary. Shaders afre so poorly coded, I've seen a gtx 660 get the same results, and I've seen other 780's get 100+ fps all on the same version of shaders.

 
 
ITneto 1 point 8 months ago

Humm,pooly coded huh?,Well actually in budget I have a evga gtx 760.. But I can get a 770 If I don't buy a gaming keyboard and mouse, should I spend on the keyboard or mouse¡?

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 2 points 8 months ago

Yes it is extremely optimized. Some extremely low end cards can run it, Like a 7750, while my 780 struggles. It is really just luck.

As for where your money goes, Depends on what keyboard/mouse you are going for. They are really important to your experience, and having a quality pair really does help in gaming/ typing. But it is also something that is cheaper to get later on. The thing is, an overclocked 760 is as fast as a 770. It is really up to you. Do you want quality peripherals now, but 5 less fps? Or more fps, but good keyboard/mouse later.

This is for 1080p gaming. If you are going to go higher res. go for the 770.

If you could, tell me what keyboard/ mouse you are looking at, I could help more!

 
 
ITneto 1 point 8 months ago

Thanks you! you're really helpful! I'll use my HDTV 1080p Sony, and I did some research and found that the gtx 760 is plenty at that resolution, but I also look for futureproofing, I read that the 770 has more cuda cores, but the diference price is over 80$ for just 10fps!, Will the gtx 760 long for 2-3 years at ultra/high settings¡?

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 8 months ago

Pc is really slowing down. You won't need to replace a 760 in 2-3 years at 1080p.

 
 
ITneto 1 point 8 months ago

I was looking for the MS sidewinder x4, And I am struggling with the mouse choice, I'd like a wireless mice, because I got so frustrated with the wired mouse I own for my laptop, wired the Anker 8200 or CM inferno wireless logitech g700 o g700s but expanding my budget alot. Sorry I am not a native speaker

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 8 months ago

Owning the g700 myself, it is awesome. There is another wireless mouse from logitech that is nice too, and has longer battery life. Can't say anything about the other mice.

The microsoft keyboard is nice, but the keycaps they have are known to wear away after a year of use.

 
 
ITneto 1 point 8 months ago

Thank you so much! you helped me a lot!

 
 
Zynchronize [1 Build] 1 point 13 months ago

Vsync is restricting your hardware, with that much power there is no point in using it, perhaps if you had a 660 or lower where frames will fluctuate but up here no-no. I dont use Vsync on MC (have a 770) and my frames stay in the 1000-5000 region, not that i can actually see past 144 on my monitor but nice as a little reminder of the raw power 'under the hood'.

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Zynchronize [1 Build] 0 points 13 months ago

Killing the components... I call BS on that.

 
 
LeMonarque [3 Builds] 4 points 13 months ago

Not literally killing. Just stressing for no visible reason, which technically is wasted lifetime for your GPU since it will be at full throttle clock speed (and therefore voltage) all the time. If you can't see past 144, there's no reason to stress your GPU past that point.

You've got a 700 series GPU, so just fire up EVGA Precision X and set an FPS target. It's one of the features of the 700 series, and it's VSync without all the issues. It limits the clock speed of your GPU to only as high as you need it to run games at max 144 fps.

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JTsComputer [1 Build] 5 points 17 months ago

dare i ask why you warn against the OEM windows 8?

otherwise looks great and good cable management

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 6 points 17 months ago

It has annoying text on the desktop that says "Windows 8 Build 9200 " And it crashes a lot more than my laptop with windows 8 full.

 
 
JTsComputer [1 Build] 1 point 17 months ago

seriously? ughhh...have the OEM bought but not installed yet

 
 
saw1833 [1 Build] 5 points 17 months ago

I have two NFR copies of Win8 which is (supposedly) the same thing as OEM. Once Win8 is activated, the "build number" goes away.

I do a lot of setups on PCs for new customers, laptops and such, and I usually start working before ever connecting to the internet, they do the same thing until they're activated.

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saw1833 [1 Build] 3 points 17 months ago

No problem!

For the record, the windows 8.1 RP is out! It can be downloaded as an update. Make yourself a back-up image and give it a try!

 
 
fsma92 [2 Builds] 3 points 17 months ago

Awesome build. It never ceases to amaze me how freaking huge the phanteks CPU coolers are..

 
 
tyabbott 2 points 17 months ago

Nice build, but could I ask why you're looking to get a second 780. One 780 seems overkill enough especially when you're running just one 1080p monitor.

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Ventrus [1 Build] 1 point 17 months ago

You can so bring a heavy desktop to college!

I do it, and it's awesome.. Desktop for powerhouse gaming and what not and a cheap laptop for taking notes in class and misc things..

It's awesome. My roomates are jealous too!

Also what can you tell me about that mobo.. I have my eye on that one.

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 3 points 17 months ago

Any specific things you want answered? I'll just say for now that: 1. It looks awesome 2. The io panel has good buttons and connectors that i need. 3. The bios is super fast. Boots up crazy fast. 4. The bios is easy to navigate and is good looking as well. 5. oc genie is helpful when you do not feel like going into the bios and adjusting settings. 6 There is a button called go2bios which when you press it, it goes to the bios the next time you restart or turn the computer on. Very helpful. 7. has all the pci e connectors i need. No silly old pci slots. All pci express. And if i have a pcie x4 or x8 card. I can stick it in the last pci x8 slot and be ready to go. i could go on about it. It really is nice. Has a few leds on it but not sure if that is a plus for some people. It is for me.

 
 
Ventrus [1 Build] 1 point 17 months ago

Thanks dude! That pretty much summed it up!! I appreciate it!

It seems like I will be getting this Mobo, very soon.

I'm hoping for a 4.5ghz OC on an i7 4770k with a H100i in a 500r case with 4 fans.

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 17 months ago

Quite nice. Just gotta hope for a good cpu!

 
 
Ventrus [1 Build] 1 point 17 months ago

Fingers Crossed. If not than im fine with a 4.2 - 4.4 OC

 
 
Lorkisen 2 points 17 months ago

Dont know if this thread is still active. I have a few questions about the price. I live in Norway and have probarbly have to buy from Komplett.no an online store to get any kind of reliable warranty. When I picked out the parts according to your build it sums up to 20.846 NOK(excluding keyboad&mouse) which is about 3400USD. I can likely get a few percent discounted but I'd really like to know how you got it low.

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Lorkisen 2 points 17 months ago

ok, thanks for the reply. The build is till worth it so I'm getting one. The price was kind of steep but they do offer good service so hopefully it'll be worth it. Are you happy with your build?

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AlanPeterson68 2 points 16 months ago

How do you like your mobo? I'm looking to get one and can't decide between the MSI gd65-gaming and the Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD4H.

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sunny.mallick [1 Build] 1 point 17 months ago

Nice selection of parts. What games have you played on this PC so far?

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 3 points 17 months ago

just crysis 3 and minecraft so far. Installed crysis 3 but havent ran it yet.

 
 
Cometballer [1 Build] 9 points 17 months ago

GTX 780 vs. Minecraft...I like it.

 
 
miniclipgamer [2 Builds] 12 points 17 months ago

Man, I bet it scrapes by with about 10 FPS...

 
 
Cometballer [1 Build] 6 points 17 months ago

Oh yeah, the GPU hog of the century.

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Ggadget 5 points 17 months ago

Even if it's optimized for amd, I'm sure a 780 will run it fine.

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 2 points 16 months ago

Yes i still get like 150 fps with shaders

 
 
Ggadget 1 point 16 months ago

Nice!

 
 
Ggadget 1 point 16 months ago

I'm getting a 760. I hope it can run shaders.

 
 
SyrackDD3R 1 point 13 months ago

It should. One of the old 460s can run it at 40 fps

 
 
cam313 [1 Build] 1 point 17 months ago

Nicely done!

 
 
ravagex 1 point 17 months ago

Rock on dude for future proofing!

 
 
tbyeah 1 point 17 months ago

Only comment I have is that the network adapter you got is SO overpriced... Other than that, great build.

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 17 months ago

yeah it is overpriced. But neccesary imo. My router uses wireless ac and to take advantage of that i went for this one. Also, my laptop lags horribly when in my room so i needed a card that would not lag at such a distance.

 
 
ManicMonk 1 point 11 months ago

HI, I have nearly the same build, I am looking for a budget wireless network card, could you suggest one?

Here is my build: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/ManicMonk/saved/2Tqb

 
 
Apach3 [2 Builds] 1 point 17 months ago

i would think one GTX780 would be plenty enough for the 1080p gaming you're doing, but in the end there's no kill like overkill.

also, congrats on getting the 4770K to run at 4.5GHz off the voltage of a potato :D

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thefishkid1 [2 Builds] 1 point 17 months ago

I have the same CPU cooler, its actually better than most of the closed loop CPU water coolers. The only one that is noticeably better is the H100i and it makes a helluva racket when the fans are at max. Phanteks are the truth.

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dannymad1 1 point 17 months ago

So if i buy the 780 from the usa i save myself £100? Seems abit weird

 
 
Highwlaker [1 Build] 2 points 16 months ago

Everything's cheaper in UHMERIKA!

 
 
MrsSmallCow 1 point 17 months ago

Why not a all in one liquid cooler? A h80i is about the same price.

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MrsSmallCow -1 points 17 months ago

Aircooling is dangerous too ya know

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Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 4 points 17 months ago

Haha that is not going to happen. The mounting system is very secure and it uses a backplate which strengthens the motherboard and keeps the cooler secure.

 
 
MrsSmallCow -3 points 17 months ago

It could if the builder is a nub

 
 
LeMonarque [3 Builds] 4 points 16 months ago

Air cooling is not at all dangerous.

And the guy you're talking to IS the builder :)

Have you ever seen a heatsink fall off when screwed on? Or have you only read about it once in the thousands of various threads you've seen?

 
 
fcruz2489 [2 Builds] 1 point 17 months ago

Great, clean build! How do you like that wireless card? i was looking to pick that up for my build. are you running on AC or on N?

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 17 months ago

AC I have a wireless router so ya. Believe it or not, i get better internet speeds that my father's computer with ethernet. My computer is also about 5 rooms away from the router and has to penetrate many walls. Great looking/ performing wireless card.

 
 
fcruz2489 [2 Builds] 1 point 17 months ago

Sounds good, I was debating due to price and questionable reviews on Newegg but it seems like one of the only internal AC cards and it's definitely the coolest looking. Thanks for the feedback!

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fcruz2489 [2 Builds] 1 point 16 months ago

hey i just got my card today and it completely blows up my windows 8 when i try installing the drivers. found some threads online so i am not alone - apparently it affects all z87 motherboards. did you have any issues getting your drivers installed? just curious.

thanks

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 16 months ago

Had the same problem. issue fixed by not using the disc included, but instead downloaded the driver and installed via usb flash drive.

 
 
fcruz2489 [2 Builds] 2 points 16 months ago

Really? that's interesting. i got it to work by going to the asus site and installing the older driver, the newer one from their website still craps out my system. I am going to wait a few weeks to see if they release an even newer one that will hopefully correct this issue.

Im also really unimpressed with my router, i am literally 1ft away from it with the wireless card for testing - on AC at 5Ghz and i am only getting 500mbps out of the theoretical 1700mbps. i have a D-Link DIR-865L that i got on sale on black friday last year for $120 but I am thinking that i may need to sell it and pickup an asus RT-AC66U.

thanks for the quick and informative comment

 
 
hjj174 1 point 8 months ago

If you are that close just use ethernet, otherwise move the router at least 3ft away. Believe it or not but being too close is a bad thing.

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fcruz2489 [2 Builds] 1 point 16 months ago

Asus not working with Asus. Who would've known lol have you tried a firmware upgrade on the router?

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LeMonarque [3 Builds] 1 point 16 months ago

What speakers do you have? Love the lights on them

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 16 months ago

Some cheap speakers i got for like 5 bucks. They suck sound-wise but look cool so i threw them in there. I really need to get good speakers. The built in ones in my monitor and the lighty up ones sound terrible.

 
 
DoctorFishz [1 Build] 1 point 16 months ago

Don't you have problems with your wireless adapter and your haswell processor ? I have the 4770K just like you and the same network adapter and mine prevents my PC from booting up :O I really need to know how to fix it because it drives me crazy.

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 16 months ago

I don't have that problem. have you installed drivers yet? if not, i would take the card out, then install drivers for the wireless card, restart, then install the card again to see if it works.

 
 
DoctorFishz [1 Build] 1 point 16 months ago

As soon as I install the drivers, my PC won't boot anymore. It gets stuck at the windows loading screen. http://tinyurl.com/nh6r92s

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 16 months ago

Hmm, not having that problem. Guess i got lucky. Does it have something to do with a circle spinning then stopping with the windows logo above?

 
 
DoctorFishz [1 Build] 1 point 16 months ago

I'm using windows 7. When the 4 dots turn into the windows logo, it freezes and doesn't do anything anymore.

 
 
LulzAreGud [1 Build] 1 point 16 months ago

This is quite possibly the sexiest thing I have ever seen

 
 
TheCanadianGamer16 [1 Build] 1 point 16 months ago

Question, for the price of your build, why not get an H100 or H100i, the phanteks is the same price, and it would look a lot cleaner with just the tubes and cpu block visible, while showing more of your motherboard aesthetics. i have an h100 in my system, and it looks a hell of a lot nicer than having an NH-D14 or giant heatsink cooler like the phanteks blocking half the motherboard, other than that your build is awesome.

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TheCanadianGamer16 [1 Build] 1 point 16 months ago

its understandable, im using a refurbished h100 in an $1800 rig, if i had the money i would have got a custom loop, but for a 3570K and 7970, i don't need it.

 
 
Arrowdodger 1 point 15 months ago

Nice build for $2500 How is your storage performing? that is the exact model i would like to put in mine. How is the picture on the monitor? again same model

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Arrowdodger 1 point 15 months ago

Honestly though, wouldn't it have been a "faster" experience to do a 7200 rpm hdd? Well, i don't consider myself a 3d guy (unless its for a gaming purpose) but other than the color accuracy downgrade, has there been any bad pixels or laggy refreshing that is ever noticeable?

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Arrowdodger 1 point 15 months ago

i was just wondering on reliability and performance because i will be building a computer as soon as i get back to the states. i just meant if the computer ever has become laggy from your video card(s) to your monitor, because that is the worst thing to be in the middle of a game and your screen lags out

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Arrowdodger 1 point 15 months ago

Awesome possum Thank you sir

 
 
uraphegget [1 Build] 1 point 15 months ago

Nice build, but did you have any problems with the cpu cable from the power supply plugging in to your motherboard. I have the same motherboard and power supply, but the cables seem to be incompatible.

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UnexceptionalJew 1 point 15 months ago

Hows that Power Supply treating you? I thought about getting too. Any issues? Is it quiet?

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QuizzlePuff 1 point 15 months ago

How well does that wireless card work?

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QuizzlePuff 1 point 15 months ago

I'm just wondering because I've heard a lot of thinks about how it doesn't work on the Z87 chipset and the new Haswell processors.

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QuizzlePuff 1 point 15 months ago

I am going to get it because I'm going to get the same motherboard. I was just asking to see if was working fine for you to see if it would work for me..so thanks for the information!

 
 
Ironhorse2 1 point 15 months ago

Nice work, but wondering why you picked the GTC 780 versus 760. You could have saved over $400 and not that much more performance. Well, for that price you could hav eput in 2 GTX 760's. Same with the i7 4470K versus i5 4670K, $125 less. Good work on the cable management. I saw you concerns on the liquid cooler, but the Corsair H100i is an enclosed system so the risk of leaking is minimal and the best part is you can match the Corsair LED to the LED of your 780.

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rsandrea 1 point 15 months ago

Hello, I was wondering why people it's choosing 4x4gb on RAM instead of 2x8gb, I have seen a couple of high end builds like this memory setup, any feedback on the why? I'm planning on getting 2x8gb but I'm now wondering...

Thanks

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rsandrea 1 point 15 months ago

Thanks for the response

 
 
olivermunk [1 Build] 1 point 14 months ago

Very nice! digging the CPU cooler!

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TDAxMonster 1 point 14 months ago

how's the air flow on that?

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TDAxMonster 1 point 14 months ago

im buying the fans with my whole build so i wont have that but my CPU is going to be air cooled and the thing is massive i don't want that messing with my build.

 
 
StrifeWolfe1994 [1 Build] 1 point 13 months ago

Please, tell me how the lights make it faster...

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TheCrazyCryptonite 1 point 13 months ago

You said you wanted case lighting. So i suggest the NZXT Hue if you have a free optical drive bay.

 
 
Krez 1 point 13 months ago

How do you like your Custom One Pros? Do you have an amp + dac w/ em?

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swainey 1 point 12 months ago

How come you didnt have to use the psu red cables?

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CarsonLudt 1 point 12 months ago

If you're planning on getting case lights, check out the NZXT Hue.

 
 
CHEEFxKWEEF [1 Build] 1 point 9 months ago

she's a beaut!

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 9 months ago

Thanks. We both have 4770k + 780, but you got to buy the 780 at the $500 price point. I had to pay $650.

 
 
bugattikid2012 1 point 8 months ago

I've built something VERY similar to this, but I have a question. My monitor hasn't come in yet, and something I'm doing with LEDS isn't completed yet, but if I post my build as completed, can I edit the pictures later? Like add more pictures to the completed build thing on here? For example, if you took another picture of your build and wanted to post it on this page, could you do it without having to re-post the whole thing? I know that sounds wordy but I wanted to make sure I got my question across.

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 8 months ago

Yes there is a button that lets you edit the posted build. You can add pictures, change the parts list, rate the parts, and change the description/title

Here's a screenshot. http://imgur.com/QbVFByM

 
 
bugattikid2012 1 point 8 months ago

Thanks, I had seen many other comments on other builds that say how they had to repost it due to this not working or something. They must have been outdated or not have known what they were talking about. I'll post my build soonish.

 
 
jamisan601 1 point 7 months ago

Would you recommend the 780 with the blower style cooler or do you think an aftermarket cooler would be better?

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 7 months ago

I mainly got the blower cooler for looks, you can change the color of the led too. But for better overclocks and acoustics it would be better to go with something like an evga acx cooler. I'm not saying the blower is loud, it is very quiet, but the other coolers do a better job. It just looks better imo.

 
 
Build4Life 1 point 4 months ago

What are those speakers?

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 4 months ago

iJunk. Sound is pretty bad.

Called ilit speakers or something. Can't really find them anywhere.

 
 
Build4Life 1 point 4 months ago

Thank you

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Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 4 months ago

The mouse is wired too. I use it in that mode often.

 
 
InsanelyEpic 1 point 4 months ago

how well do u think a msi gtx 760 oc would run minecraft shaders? if it helps ill probably be using the sues ultra shaderpack most of the time

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 4 months ago

On that shaderpack I get maybe 50 fps. But I've seen people with a 760 get 60 fps +. Minecraft is so poorly optimized that fps is quite random amongst systems. 2 identical computers may get completely different fps on minecraft. However, there are shaderpacks that are good in fps, such as bumpshadow and chocapic shaderpacks. I get the full 144fps on both of those.

 
 
InsanelyEpic 1 point 4 months ago

did u have any mouse lag though? 50+ fps is still pretty stable and playable. also were u in fullscreen?

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 4 months ago

Yes fullscreen. As long as you don't use vsync you wont get mouse lag, however screen tearing is horrible. That's why I got gsync.

 
 
InsanelyEpic 1 point 4 months ago

is there certain monitors that g sync is compatible? the one im buying is a benQ with the same specs on your asus u bought

 
 
Hakumisoso [Submitter] [2 Builds] 1 point 4 months ago

So far the upgrade kit is only for my monitor, there are monitors with built in gsync coming out. You must have a new nvidia card to use it. Amd has this thing called freesync which is basically gsync but free, however it is not here yet.

 
 
YAOWNYSE 0 points 17 months ago

Love this build, half of the builds are complete **** and this is one of the actual good ones. Good job.

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Nendo [1 Build] 0 points 17 months ago

Don't do case lighting, it's tacky. That's a phat cooler btw.

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Smily -3 points 17 months ago

Builder, please respond to this comment!

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Smily -3 points 17 months ago

YES

YOU ARE MY SERVANT

I TOLD YOU TO DO SOMETHING, AND YOU DID IT

AHAHAHAHAHA

All terrible jokes aside, nice build, the wind isn't gonna blow your papers away with that rock sitting on them ;-)