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Topic

philip 24 days ago

At best you'll lose voting privileges. At worst, you'll get banned. And then all you'll have to show for it is tons of wasted time, lost saved builds, comments, etc. It's not worth it.

Comments Sorted by:

Shakaron 4 Builds 3 points 24 days ago

Why do we have the whole upvote system?

I guess the original intent was to vote on useful comments so they would show up first.

However, this doesn't seem to work these days. People upvote their buddies regardless if it is useful or not. Or downvote people randomly (without explaining why they did that: e.g. you created an Intel build for the OP while he explicitly said he prefers AMD).

I would love to see the whole upvote/downvote system gone as it is often misused and abused.

philip staff submitter 10 Builds 12 points 21 days ago

Voting has pluses and minuses, just as not voting does as well. There isn’t a system that has only good, nor is there a system that allows voting that isn’t subject to abuse. What is important is that abuse is easy to detect (it is), and that abuse is minimal (it is). The result is a net gain. It’s just that the minority of abuses get the majority of attention, making the perception that it isn’t working well.

Shakaron 4 Builds 2 points 21 days ago

It’s just that the minority of abuses get the majority of attention, making the perception that it isn’t working well.

Yeah, people tend to single out bad things and let these landmark their experience. To be honest, I myself have fallen into this pitfall a few times.

nightrook 4 Builds 4 points 23 days ago

Fair point, but is there a better alternative so OP knows which comment is the best option? Do the cons of the voting system outweigh the pros?

tragiktimes101 4 points 23 days ago

It's a fine system on the whole. It has its flaws, but what system doesn't? I just hope it's not too much of a hassle for the staff to manage.

philip staff submitter 10 Builds 6 points 21 days ago

It’s not bad. Abuse is a tiny fraction of overall votes. Detecting abuse is easy. The consequences are the reason I posted - when someone who has had an account for five years gets caught with rampant abuse, they get banned. That’s a lot of time investment, saved builds, and comment contributions thrown away. We don’t like to do it, but people need to know there are consequences for abusing the community’s trust.

A5PECT 1 Build 3 points 22 days ago

Some other forums give the OP the ability to mark a comment as the most correct/helpful answer. I think something like that would be useful in the absence of up and down votes (or even alongside it).

Shakaron 4 Builds 2 points 23 days ago

My idea of the whole thing is that the OP can read the comments and make a decision based on that.

If I do not agree with something others said, I can just reply to their comment saying I do not agree with you because this and that and give an argument of my point of view.

I think this is more constructive and carries way more information than just casting a +1 or -1 on something.

If you see a post having a -1 how would you know why it is wrong or if it is wrong at all?

If you see something with a +5 how would you know what is the real value there?

Having a comment like "I agree, an SSD could speed up the load times" is more useful than giving the guy a +1 for a 10 line comment that may have no further values in it.

nightrook 4 Builds 2 points 23 days ago

OP might not know enough about the topic at hand though.

And even though that suggestion is not bad, you have to keep in mind this system makes it easier for people to voice their opinion. It's much easier to vote on a poll instead of typing in your answer, for example. The easier you make something to do, the more people are inclined to do it since it doesn't take much effort. Not to mention that more information is not necessarily a good thing if it's not condensed.

Shakaron 4 Builds 3 points 22 days ago

this system makes it easier for people to voice their opinion. It's much easier to vote on a poll instead of typing in your answer, for example. The easier you make something to do, the more people are inclined to do it since it doesn't take much effort.

Absolutely. However, this does not help work for (the small fraction of the community) who casts votes without consideration (that is, upvotes for friends and downvotes for some other reasons).

Not to mention that more information is not necessarily a good thing if it's not condensed.

Yes, that could be a problem too.

I guess it's really not easy to come up with a simple but foolproof solution. Maybe a mixture of things (more complex system) would be better.

Maybe votes required at least a few words of explanations why the voter chose +/- 1 below the original comment.

E.g.:

Person A: x builds, -1 point, y hours ago
    I think you should buy a 120 GB NVMe SSD for your gaming rig.
        Person B -1: NVMe is not needed for gaming
        Person C +1: NVMe is great for large file copy
        Person D -1: OP wants to game, not copy large files
        Person E -1: I'm a troll.
    Reply from OP:
        Thank you for your tip. I already have a SATA SSD in my system and that works fine for me.

And this, for instance, would allow the moderators to see if someone casts +/- 1 votes for trolling or without due reason (see Person E). Of course, they would not actually say that they are trolls, but since a few words would be required, they would need to add some explanation. If the explanation is bogus or sill;y, others can overrule them (e.g. give the opposite vote to the post, saying that Person E is wrong).

Also, this would stop people hide behind anonymity when voting up/down. Anonymity is also favoured by trolls.

nightrook 4 Builds 2 points 22 days ago

Sure, that could work. Not a bad solution, depending on how the site is set up it could be fairly easy or moderately easy to implement.

nonoesimposible 2 points 19 days ago

One problem is that a comment that would have 10 upvotes in the current system would have 10 comments essentially saying "This is great!" when only one of those comments is needed.

A5PECT 1 Build 1 point 22 days ago

That doesn't sound bad. It wouldn't have to be a separate comment field, you could simply require the voter to leave a reply to the post they're downvoting.

elvenson 5 Builds 1 point 23 days ago

You've been against this so long lol. It's good to see your consistent with it haha

Really though, I see no more harm in it than there is help in it... It depends on what's being discussed and how I guess... We see it abused in some sections that don't matter far more than in the areas where it does, so might as well keep it or find an equivalent. The votes double as a popularity contest and a usefulness guide depending on the post...

Shakaron 4 Builds 1 point 23 days ago

Strange enough, similar systems (e.g. Stack Overflow's vote system) work fine. I will not try to make conclusions on this. :D

Really though, I see no more harm in it than there is help in it.

I think it does more good than harm. Absolutely. Nevertheless, I think a better system could exist. For a bit more details on this, please have a look at my comment to nightrook

Eltech 19 Builds 1 point 23 days ago

Philip, is this still happening often? I remember this in the past which I understand and will respect on what is said. Not asking for x amount to know how many, just this is the 2nd time I seen this about in a long time. I hope there are less alt accounts than before but sounds like it is happening again?

elvenson 5 Builds 1 point 23 days ago

Haha, people still try that? Must be new members that didn't see you crack down on it long ago

Captaincow285 1 point 23 days ago

Has there been a lot of vote collusion recently?

HarvesterofSorrow 2 Builds 1 point 20 days ago

People do that? LOL. thats pathetic...

Cicero_ 4 Builds 1 point 18 days ago

I’m glad we have a public announcement about this now so people know the staff is paying attention to the matter. I hope you guys continue to provide the same amount of attention towards keeping the forums a positive and helpful place for anyone who has a question.

The incredible level of professionalism and involvement on the part of the staff is why PCPartPicker is still my favorite forum for all things tech. Keep up the amazing work yo :D

Ender_Mist 1 Build 1 point 17 days ago

You could potentially switch to a 5-level voting system. This would potentially add more to the upvote system.

AxEy 2 Builds 1 point 14 days ago

ROFL Clone accounts. Why would you upvote yourself. Whats the benefit.

slkipp 1 Build 1 point 12 days ago

People are actually making alt accounts to upvote their **** on this website? This isn't even Reddit, or 4chan, or any chan, its.... PCPP....and people make alt accounts? Jeeeeeeese.

BreckRBLX 1 point 7 days ago

I think that we should lose downvoting because if you downvote a post with 0 votes it makes it go into negative numbers.

Over9000GHz 1 Build 1 point 6 days ago

That's the point, if it's not helpful or if its wrong then the comment's reputation drops.

Over9000GHz 1 Build 1 point 6 days ago

Is it ok if we have alt accounts but refrain from upvoting and downvoting others who we already up/downvoted?

philip staff submitter 10 Builds 1 point 6 days ago

Can you give me a valid reason to do so?

Over9000GHz 1 Build 1 point 5 days ago

This account has been a flop with over a thousand comments and zero comment karma, with saved part lists being judged as "troll lists" though in reality I made them long ago and do not wish to delete them. A couple other people reffered to my completed build as a troll as well, featuring a cardboard side panel. I would like to start clean under another account to continue helping people through there, and I won't be judged for my build and saved part lists.

Tooth 1 Build 0 points 23 days ago

reset all the upvotes to zero every year.

all the upvoting is spamming by upvoting or downvoting by the kids under age 59 :)

can you replace the upvoting with a "Thanks" button ?

ugandan_knuckles 1 Build 4 points 23 days ago

I don't think that would be a good Idea.

MannyPCs 2 points 23 days ago

Or instead of simple karma upvote or downvote, maybe have a like, funny, useful, or unuseful buttons.

nightrook 4 Builds 1 point 23 days ago

There we go! See, this is a good suggestion.

Shakaron 4 Builds 4 points 22 days ago

How is this different from the current system?

Instead of having +1 / -1 now we'd have funny/useful/unuseful states.

All 3 of them at the same time? Or useful and unuseful being the same as +1 and -1, just instead of numbers we have a text?

I don't see how this would be different and how it would discourage people casting useful/funny to their buddies (or their own votes from a separate account) and unuseful to someone they do not like.

nightrook 4 Builds 1 point 22 days ago

Much easier to implement from a programmer's perspective, not to mention, words are more descriptive than numbers.

Shakaron 4 Builds 1 point 21 days ago

Much easier to implement from a programmer's perspective

How so? (I work as a software engineer.)

words are more descriptive than numbers

True.

On the other hand the only way I see this is that the post would look like this:

Person A: funny 1, useful 3, not useful 1
    I love the green theme of the build as it reminds me of poison.

Or if someone aggregates useful and not useful to display only what is more, than we're back to +1 / -1 really, just a text is displayed instead.

Furthermore, this does not help the original issue, that people upvote themselves.

Ender_Mist 1 Build 1 point 17 days ago

I like this idea. :D

MannyPCs 1 point 22 days ago

Wow thanks, I didn't expect to see this much support. :)

Captaincow285 1 point 22 days ago

I second this.

MannyPCs 1 point 22 days ago

Thanks, hopefully Philip will read this.

philip staff submitter 10 Builds 1 point 21 days ago

I don’t think we’ll go this route for right now, but I won’t rule it out forever. This post wasn’t to say voting isn’t working, but rather to say that if you abuse it you’ll have consequences. Changing the vote types would be subject to similar abuse. (We see about 2 or 3 to 1 ratio of upvote collusion to downvote collusion.)

MannyPCs 1 point 21 days ago

I understand that, I started to have second thoughts about it anyway, this seems not a very easy thing to tackle.

tragiktimes101 1 point 12 days ago

the kids under age 59

****, I'm a kid again.

Hobie12345 1 point 12 days ago

Me too.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

tragiktimes101 1 point 12 days ago

I'd like to think it means I can stop paying bills.

Hobie12345 1 point 12 days ago

That sounds like a good plan. I just hope they don't all become due again at 59.

tragiktimes101 1 point 12 days ago

Oof.

ugandan_knuckles 1 Build 1 point 1 day ago

ouch

[comment deleted by staff]
philip staff submitter 10 Builds 1 point 20 days ago

Don't go putting usernames out there unless you have solid evidence to back it up.

[comment deleted]
[comment deleted by staff]
philip staff submitter 10 Builds 1 point 20 days ago

Stop. I'm not here to name and shame anyone, and I don't think it's good for you to go accusing people of voting abuse here. What you linked to is different than what this topic is about, and the deleted comment in the thread you listed is from a different user. Pointing fingers when you don't have the full picture only serves to stir up drama and rumors.

Superb_Falcon -3 points 20 days ago

Sorry, lol.