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Topic

Recharged 46 months ago

I think a great way to spread the ideals of free software would be to make them more available to the end-users. A great way to do this would be to add options for GNU/Linux distributions under the operating systems tab. I believe a great way to do this would be to add the different distributions, such as Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, linking them to their respective websites (perhaps even hosting the latest iso on here), then giving a list of websites which sell pre-burned CDs or even a donation link. As of right now, there are no options for operating systems other than Windows on here, and that is an ethical issue.

Perhaps to even go further, add in other operating systems, such as *BSD, Plan9, Android, etc.

Then to go even further, add in support for hardware with GNU/Linux. Maybe adding which have free drivers and which only have non-free drivers. (that can be found at h-node.org). That would be great to have for me, as I really enjoy using this websites; the only down-side is having to scour the Internet to find out which hardware would be supported in Debian GNU/Linux.

Comments Sorted by:

manirelli staff 8 Builds 3 points 46 months ago

We've talked about this in several threads in the past but it basically boils down to two things:

The vast majority of the Operating Systems are not sold at a retailer we list and therefore linking to them would mean an update every time an update is pushed to each distro across a variety of websites. None of them use a feed so they would either need to be scraped or manually updated.

We cannot verify compatibility with each distro and their various kernel versions which is the core functionality of the site.

The best solution right now is to simply add the OS as a custom part and class it as your operating system.

ElectricUniverse -2 points 46 months ago

You are trying to fit linux into your windows-only OS page. It's not the same and will require new thinking around linux. SteamOS is coming. The other big linux distros are maturing quickly and are in wide use despite all the negative info out there and the negative perceptions. And I see a lot on PCPP.

So keep telling us that it's too hard to do. I really just see your position as limiting your market space. And it seems contrary to what I would want to do if I was running PCPP and making decisions. Maybe it's time for PCPP to step up. Maybe there are people in the way of letting that happen.

Here are the requirements for a DIY SteamOS Steam Machine

Processor: Intel or AMD 64-bit capable processor

Memory: 4GB or more RAM

Hard Drive: 500GB or larger disk

Video Card: NVIDIA graphics card AMD graphics card (RADEON 8500 and later) Intel graphics

Additional: UEFI boot support USB port for installation

http://store.steampowered.com/steamos/buildyourown

Warlock 1 point 46 months ago

Similar topic already posted.

Recharged submitter 0 points 46 months ago

That doesn't particularly pertain to my topic. Also, those comments are poor arguments.

Linux distros are free. This website only links to retail sites. See the issue?

You can purchase a pre-burned CD/DVD with GNU/Linux on it, just like Windows. See: https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/ There are many other websites which pre-burn iso images for GNU/Linux distros.

Considering the number of distros and releases available, unrealistic.

Yet PCPartPicker currently lists every different version of Windows 7.

Even if PCPartPicker had unlimited budget, distros with official listing of hardware compatibility is basically non-existent.

Hardware compatibility is within the kernel itself, it's not different between distribution. unless it uses an older kernel. The only difference is some come pre-installed with non-free drivers (such as Ubuntu) and some only come pre-installed with only the free drivers (Debian). And as I stated in the OP, free drivers can be found at h-node.org (or http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/) while the non-free ones can be found (just like the non-free drivers for Windows) on the developer's website. There are plenty of lists for driver support for GNU/Linux.

Therefore, I believe GNU/Linux should be added to the operating system's tab.

Warlock -1 points 46 months ago

Hardware compatibility is within the kernel itself, it's not different between distribution...

That sounds fine in theory but it's just that, theory. In reality, there are always problems of this distro not working with this "x" hardware or that distro not working that "y" hardware constantly. If you want an example, Linux Lite 2.4 has no problems with HP MIni 1140 yet Linux Mint 17.1 and LXLE 14.04 will not even boot. All have same kernel - 3.13.0 and all are offshoots of Debian/Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS. And yes, the MD5SUM for all three were verified, like any other distro, after download.

As for your "h-node.org", their own website states the following: The h-node.org has to be considered in beta version.

Your second Debian link states the following: The result does NOT guarantee your hardware works perfectly.

If those two links are your ideas of official listing of hardware compatibility, I think your own examples has shown why Linux is not popular in desktop/workstation use. People will not be using an OS if they can not even install the &%#$$@~! thing in the first place.

Recharged submitter 1 point 46 months ago

If you want an example, Linux Lite 2.4 has no problems with HP MIni 1140 yet Linux Mint 17.1 and LXLE 14.04 will not even boot. All have same kernel - 3.13.0 and all are offshoots of Debian/Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS. And yes, the MD5SUM for all three were verified, like any other distro, after download.

I never guaranteed that everything works perfectly. I never even once said that. However, did you ever think that it may have been a human error and not an error with the distribution? I know that I've made plenty of errors while installing before. And do you know for a fact they used the same kernel?

Those distributions are Ubuntu-based, meaning they run off of unstable repositories by default, while Debian does not. Perhaps there was an issue with a software at the time in one of their repositories that has likely been fixed by now. That does not mean the drivers don't work.

As for your "h-node.org", their own website states the following: The h-node.org has to be considered in beta version.

And when exactly consider a website out of beta? PCPartPicker can still be considered in beta. So can a lot of other websites. Does that falsify the information by any means? No. It means that their library isn't entirely built up. It's a website run by a community, not a company. Their work is never done.

Your second Debian link states the following: The result does NOT guarantee your hardware works perfectly.

Working drivers do not mean perfect drivers. It just means they can work.

If those two links are your ideas of official listing of hardware compatibility, I think your own examples has shown why Linux is not popular in desktop/workstation use.

I never once stated they were official listings. Those are two examples of listings of hardware compatibility. GNU/Linux isn't popular due to it not having any advertisements or revenue. I'm sure if I told anyone that I could give them an operating system that is immune to viruses , plenty times faster, and can block annoying advertisements online, anyone would take up that offer.

Warlock 0 points 46 months ago

...However, did you ever think that it may have been a human error and not an error with the distribution?

I always keep that in mind, hence checking for MD5SUM, SHA1... checks with the downloaded images, then testing a distro in at least two totally different (hardware) system with the same bootable media.

ElectricUniverse 0 points 46 months ago

Again you show complete lack of understanding of linux. A distro either supports your weird hardware or not. The md5sum is just to make sure your download isn't corrupted.

ElectricUniverse 0 points 46 months ago

I agree, linux should be there. SteamOS should definitely be there. PCPP should look at distrowatch and pick some distros.

warlock doesn't know what they're talking about. I laughed at the example used. If some weird netbook isn't supported then it's more a sign of how weird it is rather than a deficiency in linux! warlock you are confused.

All linux distros include modular kernels that support a wide range of common hardware. If you have weird hardware than you will either need to know how to get the driver and install it or find a distro that supports your weird hardware. That's not a problem with linux that is a problem with the vendor of the weird hardware. They decided not to provide driver support for linux.

So put blame where it belongs. It belongs with the vendor not with linux.

Microsoft also doesn't guarantee that your hardware will work perfectly either so another bad example from warlock.

All in all, warlock's arguments against having linux options for the OS are bad.

Warlock 1 point 46 months ago

...If some weird netbook isn't supported then it's more a sign of how weird it is rather than a deficiency in linux!

And yet that "weird" netbook worked with one distro and not two others. That "weird" netbook did not suddenly change it's components inside by itself. Only change was the Linux distros used.

...vendor of the weird hardware. They decided not to provide driver support for linux.

Hence the reason not to count on Linux for driver support. Vendor in question is HP, at last count, is the largest computer manufacturer.

...So put blame where it belongs. It belongs with the vendor not with linux.

If your argument is that HP (vendor) has proprietary parts and as a result fails to work with Linux, welcome to the real world. Just about all laptops and netbooks have proprietary parts in them. Using your argument, the fault is with ASUS, HP, IBM, LG, MSI, Samsung...

Those same vendors probably looked at the desktop market shares showing less than 6% Linux use in desktops.

Microsoft also doesn't guarantee that your hardware will work perfectly either...

No need. The vendors themselves state whether a particular hardware is compatible with a list of operating system. Those same "vendors" who are to "blame" for lack of Linux support.

Recharged submitter 1 point 46 months ago

Hence the reason not to count on Linux for driver support. Vendor in question is HP, at last count, is the largest computer manufacturer.

Do you count on Microsoft to give you support for your drivers? I doubt it. Why should you count on kernel developers to do that?

You should, instead, support the ones who take painstaking work to reverse-engineer this hardware for you by helping out or donating to ease the burden. It takes a lot of work and they don't have much time on their hands.

You should very much blame HP for not respecting your freedom and requiring you to run proprietary software/no software at all. That is entirely in fault by them.

If your argument is that HP (vendor) has proprietary parts and as a result fails to work with Linux, welcome to the real world. Just about all laptops and netbooks have proprietary parts in them. Using your argument, the fault is with ASUS, HP, IBM, LG, MSI, Samsung...

Yes, that would entirely be true. By these companies not respecting your freedom and only developing proprietary software, it is their fault.

Those same vendors probably looked at the desktop market shares showing less than 6% Linux use in desktops.

The only way to count users of GNU/Linux is per download of iso. And everyone who downloads an iso has the freedom to share it with anyone, making that number entirely false. It also likely does not take into account of those who dual-boot and never connect their computer to the Internet. There's a lot more desktop usage of GNU/Linux than one might think.

No need. The vendors themselves state whether a particular hardware is compatible with a list of operating system. Those same "vendors" who are to "blame" for lack of Linux support.

I have several pieces of hardware which have no "official" listings from the vendors that they have drivers for GNU/Linux and work perfectly. Does that mean they don't work?

Warlock 1 point 46 months ago

...Do you count on Microsoft to give you support for your drivers?

Definitely NOT. That is why I stated "The vendors themselves state whether a particular hardware is compatible with a list of operating system." With that said, if a particular distro does not even boot, one is not getting anywhere unless CLI is used. And with systemd replacing init , diagnosing boot failure is not particularly amusing for some.

You should, instead, support...

I think many would support Linux if they were not excessively diverse. The very features which interests so many developers is also the very same thing which turns many users off. Being diverse is good but when there is at least eight? different DEs alone, that in my opinion, is going overboard. There should be some sort of limit, so semblance of standards can be sought. Even some Linux developers get fed up with so many variations. Set parameters/standards may be boring but for many users, an operating system is nothing more than a tool that gets assists them getting job(s) done. As such, they expect their tool to simple.

Summary: I really, really, really hope that Linux succeeds in the desktop/workstation market like Linux has already done so in the server market but unless Linux makes the whole OS experience using K.I.S. in mind and repeating this is a desktop OS not a server. Any use of CLI requirement will be met with a forced and painful trip to one of Microsoft's marketing campaigns continuously in their heads, I do not see it succeeding in the desktop/workstation market.

ElectricUniverse 0 points 46 months ago

You're still confused warlock. You continue to talk about things that are not relevant to this topic. No one on PCPP builds laptops/netbooks. HP's size is not relevant. You don't understand linux.

Linux Lite, which I've never heard of, probably built the support for that weird netbook themselves. Either they reverse-engineered the driver or found a secret/proprietary blob. Many distros don't bother with weird hardware because so few people use it. HP didn't care about linux otherwise driver support would have been provided. HP's decision not linux.

Back to the issue. The only real support needed for a linux gaming rig is support for the graphics card. As far as I know drivers exist for all the top graphics cards on linux. The drivers are proprietary mostly.

All the other systems have linux support. Networking, SATA, etc., etc.

So there's really no reason not to have options for linux on PCPP.

Warlock 1 point 46 months ago

...HP's size is not relevant...

Your statement says it all. You have the right to ignore the masses as you wish but the masses is equally entitled to ignore you as well. I have no need to reply any further.

ElectricUniverse -1 points 46 months ago

You didn't stay level-headed. And you just aren't making sense. I really do not know what you're talking about. So you're right about one thing. You cannot make relevant arguments and choose not to reply. For that we thank you. Stick with things you know.

Warlock 1 point 46 months ago

No need to thank me, since you had difficulty following, answer the following,

  1. Did you, or did you not state, "...HP's size is not relevant..." Yes or no.

  2. Is HP not one of the largest computer manufacturer in the world, if not the largest. Yes or no.

  3. Did you not refer to a HP Mini 1140, one of the many Mini series that sold for four years as a "...weird netbook..." Yes or no.

Definition of weird as stated in Dictionary.com: 2. fantastic; bizarre